Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/27/1997 03:10 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                          
                        January 27, 1997                                       
                           3:10 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman                                      
 Representative John Cowdery                                                   
 Representative Bill Hudson                                                    
 Representative Joe Ryan                                                       
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
                                                                               
 OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                   
                                                                               
 Representative John Davies                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 *HOUSE BILL NO. 68                                                            
 "An Act relating to the exemption from the requirement for payment            
 for overtime under a voluntary work hour plan; and providing for an           
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      - CSHB 68(L&C) HEARD AND HELD                                            
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  68                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: VOLUNTARY FLEXIBLE WORK PLAN: OVERTIME                           
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Kelly,Vezey,James                    
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE       JRN-PG             ACTION                                      
 01/15/97        67    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/15/97        67    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 01/27/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 GENE THERRIAULT, Representative                                               
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 421                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4797                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 68.                                        
 STEVE LANG, General Manager                                                   
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 P.O. Box 73726                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 490-2201                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 TOM CASHEN, Commissioner                                                      
 Department of Labor                                                           
 P.O. Box 21149                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2784                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 DON ETHERIDGE, Representative                                                 
 Alaska District Council of Laborers                                           
 8459 Kimberly Street                                                          
 Juneau, Alaska  99081                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 586-3707                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MANO FREY, Member                                                             
 Alaska AFL-CIO                                                                
 2501 Commercial Drive                                                         
 Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 272-4571                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSHB 68.                                    
                                                                               
 RAYMOND SMITH, President                                                      
 Western Alaska Building Construction Trades Council                           
 650 West International Airport Road                                           
 Anchorage, Alaska  99518                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 562-8843                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 TIM SHARP                                                                     
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 1284 Lois Lane                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 457-2749                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 RICK BOYLES                                                                   
 Teamsters Union Local 959                                                     
 751 Old Richardson Highway                                                    
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 452-2859                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSHB 68.                                    
                                                                               
 ED KAREEN, Representative                                                     
 International Union of Operating                                              
   Engineers Local 302                                                         
 3800 East Huffman                                                             
 Anchorage, Alaska  99516                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 561-5288                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 TOM ARMSTRONG, Construction Worker                                            
 International Union of Operating                                              
   Engineers Local 302                                                         
 6430 East Ninth Avenue                                                        
 Anchorage, Alaska  99504                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 337-5981                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MIKE DESNOYERS, Electrician                                                   
 Usibelli Coal Mine                                                            
 P.O. Box 33                                                                   
 Healy, Alaska  99743                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 683-1498                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 TOM EVANS                                                                     
 Teamsters Union Local 959; and                                                
 President, Central Labor Council of Anchorage                                 
 4300 Boniface Highway                                                         
 Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 289-4166                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 LARRY GALLAGHER, Business Manager                                             
 Plumbers and Steamfitters Union Local 367                                     
 610 West 54th Avenue                                                          
 Anchorage, Alaska  99518                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 272-4571                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 LOREN CHASE, Shovel Operator                                                  
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 4201 York Avenue                                                              
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-2030                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 GENE ANDERSON, Maintenance Mechanic                                           
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 3350 Thomas Avenue                                                            
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-6126                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 WES GRAF, Construction Worker                                                 
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 631 Change Lane                                                               
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-5415                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 BILL WILLIAMS, Construction Worker                                            
 305 Sixth Avenue, Apartment 1-A                                               
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 458-7248                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 SYLVIA SULLIVAN, President                                                    
 Alaskans for a Just Society                                                   
 P.O. Box 2296                                                                 
 Valdez, Alaska  99686                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 835-3729                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 LARRY SPORTSMAN                                                               
 P.O. Box 2684                                                                 
 Valdez, Alaska  99686                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 835-3691                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 DAN CLASPILL, Electrician and Chief Steward                                   
 Usibelli Coal Mine                                                            
 Healy, Alaska   99743                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 683-2226                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MIKE FAIR                                                                     
 P.O. Box 128                                                                  
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  Not provided                                                      
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 JAY QUAKENBUSH                                                                
 P.O. Box 82391                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4248                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MARK ROSSAR                                                                   
 1228 Denali Way                                                               
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-6176                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MILT BEHR, District Representative                                            
 International Union of Operating                                              
   Engineers Local 302                                                         
 P.O. Box 71938                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 452-8131                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 CHRIS MORLEY                                                                  
 810 Smythe Street                                                             
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 452-6744                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 MARTIN CARVOLO                                                                
 P.O. Box 1749                                                                 
 Seward, Alaska  99664                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 455-4993                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 CLYDE LORENZ, Construction Worker                                             
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 P.O. Box 73114                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 457-7106                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 DEAN NEUMEYER                                                                 
 Fairbanks Gold Mining, Incorporated                                           
 1280 Heath                                                                    
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-6383                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 CHRYSTAL KOSIDOWSKI, Teamster                                                 
 2761 Park Way                                                                 
 North Pole, Alaska  99705                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 488-5796                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 ROBERT MCGILL                                                                 
 3088 Larkspur Court                                                           
 North Pole, Alaska  99705                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 488-8948                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 DON SWARNER, Carpenters' Business Representative                              
 P.O. Box 70347                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 452-3862                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 ZINN DECKER, Electrician                                                      
 P.O. Box 10955                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99710                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 457-4315                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSHB 68.                                    
 RICHARD GAUL, Construction Worker                                             
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 849 Bohnet Drive                                                              
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 488-6145                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 CHARLES DERRICK, Construction Worker                                          
 Laborers Local 942                                                            
 891 Seldom Seen Road                                                          
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 488-3093                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 JOSH MOORE, Senior Mill Operator                                              
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 1311 Dolphin Highway                                                          
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-3508                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 KARL HANNEMAN, Statewide President                                            
 Alaska Miners' Association                                                    
 626 Second Street, Suite 201                                                  
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 452-8685                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 SHAWN LOWERY, Shovel Operator                                                 
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 3350 Thomas Street                                                            
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 474-4024                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 KERMITT MELVIN, Surveyor                                                      
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 888 Gold Pan Road                                                             
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-5829                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 HARRY MCNEAL                                                                  
 Teamster 939                                                                  
 3262 Repp Road                                                                
 North Pole, Alaska 99705                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 488-6624                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 ROGER LUCAS, Safety Supervisor                                                
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 464 Shannon Drive                                                             
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 457-4522                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 TOMMY GARNER                                                                  
 2835 King Arthur Way                                                          
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-1537                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 DAN SIMIEN                                                                    
 307 Wedgewood Drive                                                           
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-4929                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 ALLEN SMITH, Mine Shift Supervisor                                            
 Fairbanks Gold                                                                
 2136 Alston Road                                                              
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 451-0064                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 RANDY WETSON, Grader Operator                                                 
 Fairbanks Gold                                                                
 P.O. Box 84656                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 456-6166                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 DAVID GUTTENBERG                                                              
 P.O. Box 80731                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 455-6394                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 JERRY MARSHALL, Senior Mill Operator                                          
 Fort Knox Mine                                                                
 Telephone:  (907) 488-8756                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 KEITH UPTON, Construction Worker                                              
 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers                               
 P.O. Box 71961                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 479-6802                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed CSHB 68.                                         
                                                                               
 KEVIN BROWN, Chief Mine Engineer                                              
 Fairbanks Gold                                                                
 440 Shannon Drive                                                             
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 488-4653                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported CSHB 68.                                       
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-3, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce                  
 Standing Committee to order at 3:10 p.m.  Members present at the              
 call to order were Representatives Rokeberg, Cowdery, Hudson, Ryan,           
 Brice and Kubina.                                                             
                                                                               
 HB  68 - VOLUNTARY FLEXIBLE WORK PLAN: OVERTIME                             
                                                                               
 Number 023                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced there would be a public hearing on HB
 68, "An Act relating to the exemption from the requirement for                
 payment for overtime under a voluntary work hour plan; and                    
 providing for an effective date."  He asked Representative                    
 Therriault to present his sponsor statement.  He also indicated               
 there were witnesses to testify via teleconference from Fairbanks,            
 Anchorage, Valdez and Bethel.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 058                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT stated the Fort Knox mine began                
 operating, after many years of construction, this past fall.  He              
 said the mine and most of the mine employees are located in his               
 district.  The mine employees have expressed desire for a flexible            
 work schedule because they want to spend less time commuting to and           
 from work and more time with their families.  The current statute             
 precludes the employees from this because it states anything over             
 8 hours per day or 40 hours per week have to be paid at time and a            
 half.  He said for the Fort Knox project, that is not economically            
 feasible.  Representative Therriault said shortly after he                    
 introduced HB 68, he realized it affected other industries that he            
 had no intention of impacting.  He said he has prepared a draft               
 committee substitute for HB 68 that would only apply to surface               
 mining operations.  In the current statute, he believes there is an           
 exemption for small mining operations of 12 employees or less.                
 Representative Therriault said a number of people have contacted              
 him who work at the Mapco Refinery.  They currently work 12-hour              
 shifts and were afraid the legislation would impact the overtime              
 that they're currently being paid.  He said he tried to assure them           
 that isn't his intent and he would be taking steps to make sure               
 that was written into the law.  The current committee substitute              
 does narrow that.  He said there has been a lot of discussion as to           
 how the affects of the bill could be realized through some other              
 means.  One of his staff members spoke to a person in Fairbanks and           
 the gist of the argument boiled down to if the employees want some            
 flexibility, they should unionize.  Current statutes allow any                
 group of employees represented by a collective bargaining agreement           
 to voluntarily exercise the type of flexibility the proposed CSHB
 68 is offering.  The Fort Knox employees have chosen not to                   
 unionize and passage of the legislation would not preclude                    
 employees from unionizing in the future.  Representative Therriault           
 said he didn't think that employees who would like a flexible work            
 schedule should have to unionize.  If employees and employers are             
 agreeable they should be permitted to work out a flexible work                
 plan.  The work plan would have to be voluntary, written between              
 employee and employer and submitted to the commissioner of the                
 Department of Labor for approval.  Representative Therriault agreed           
 to introduce the legislation after reviewing the petition signed by           
 almost all the employees at Fort Knox.  He stated that he                     
 anonymously contacted employees to make sure there was no coercion            
 involved by management to evoke employee support of the flexible              
 work plan.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 597                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to adopt CSHB 68(L&C).              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was an objection.  Hearing none,             
 CSHB 68 (L&C), LSO329\E, Cramer, 1/27/97, was adopted.                        
                                                                               
 Number 610                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked how many employees are involved and              
 the average distance employees have to drive to Fort Knox.                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT replied approximately 250 employees and             
 from 25 to 40 miles one way to Fort Knox.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 660                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY questioned if most of the Fort Knox                    
 employees agree that they want the flexible work plan.                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT replied that to be correct.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted there were public opinion messages               
 from union workers in opposition to CSHB 68 as well as letters of             
 support from Fort Knox employees.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 697                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked if the flexible work plan reduces            
 the pay of the employees or if it is an overall increase.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stated under the current schedule,                  
 employees work 160 hours at straight time pay and 8 hours at                  
 overtime pay, totaling 168 hours in a four week period.  Under the            
 proposed schedule, employees would work 152 hours at straight time            
 and 16 hours at overtime, therefore, there would be a slight pay              
 increase for that same four week period of time.                              
                                                                               
 Number 800                                                                    
                                                                               
 STEVE LANG, General Manager, Fort Knox Mine, said he has held this            
 position since November 1, 1996.  He said he sent petitions to all            
 243 Fort Knox employees, resulting in 241 employee signatures.  He            
 said he thought it was his responsibility, as General Manager, to             
 bring the request to the committee.  He explained he believes he              
 has a responsibility to ensure the long-term viability of the                 
 operation in order to protect the shareholder's investments as well           
 as the employees jobs.  Mr. Lang indicated the overruns in                    
 construction and development costs have pushed the investment to              
 over $400 million.  In addition, Amax Gold needs to recover the               
 $180 million spent in acquiring the property.  An excess of $30               
 million is needed to sustain the capital and to keep the operation            
 moving. Mr. Lang remarked "Given the current gold prices, it is a             
 very a difficult situation."                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 929                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LANG stated in order to run the 12-hour shifts without the                
 passage of CSHB 68, employees would have to be paid one hour of               
 overtime for every two hours of straight time pay, adding $1.5                
 million to the operating cost and $18 million to the life of the              
 project.  The mine cannot afford to pay the additional $18 million.           
 Mr. Lang believes the economic interests of the mine would be                 
 protected under CSHB 68.  The benefits to the employees would be              
 additional time off from work.  Mr. Lang stated that currently on             
 an 8-hour schedule, regardless of schedule rotation, to get 24-hour           
 coverage, employees have to work 21 out of every 28 days.  On a 12-           
 hour schedule, the 21 days on the job is reduced to 14 days                   
 doubling the number of days off totaling 91 additional days off a             
 year.  This also results in a 2.3 percent increase in salary.  Mr.            
 Lang indicated this is not a substitution for an employee pay                 
 increase as the last pay increase was given on January 1, 1997.               
 The cost of the 2.3 percent increase is about one quarter of a                
 million dollars a year to the mine, but with increased productivity           
 the mine will be able to recover.  Mr. Lang believes 12-hour shift            
 schedule benefits the employees with a 2.3 percent pay increase and           
 double the number of days off work.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1053                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANG  stated there is nothing illegal about 12-hour shifts and            
 indicated that several mines run safe 12-hour shifts and do so                
 safely.  He said all of the available data indicates that has been            
 no correlation between safety and the length of the shift.  He                
 referred to the publication the "24-Hour Business," by Dr. Richard            
 Coleman, which summarizes the economic health and safety issues               
 relating to shift work in union and nonunion operations.  Accident            
 analysis studies indicate there are no conclusive impacts inherent            
 on the length of the shift.  Mr. Lang referred to his own                     
 experience as general manager at the Twin Creeks Mine, that changed           
 from 10-hour shifts to 12-hour shifts.  Under the 10-hour shift,              
 the loss time frequency was at 1.6, one loss time accident for                
 200,000 man hours.  The U.S. national average of loss time is at              
 3.2.  Under the 12-hour shift the loss time dropped to 0.18, less             
 than six percent of the U.S. average.  In August of 1996, Twin                
 Creeks achieved working one billion consecutive man hours without             
 a loss time accident.  Mr. Lang stated he was general manager at              
 the Lone Tree Mine, prior to working at the Twin Creeks Mine, at              
 which he experienced a .38 percent loss time under the 12-hour                
 shift schedule resulting in a million consecutive man hours without           
 a loss time accident.  He also mentioned that Dupont has more than            
 20 years of experience with the 12-hour shifts and has an excellent           
 safety record.  Amax Coal Mines, after switching to the 12-hour               
 shift, won the Sentinel of Safety Award as one of the safest                  
 surface mines in the U.S.  Mr. Lang does not believe that the                 
 safety of mine operations depends on the length of the shift,                 
 rather it is a result of a schedule that meets the needs and the              
 desires of the employees.  He stated well rested employees are in             
 a better state of mind to work more productively and safely.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1243                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANG stated that the flexible work plan would not effect the              
 employment level at Fort Knox.  The only change would be in the               
 number of days employees have to come to work.  CSHB 68 does not              
 affect the local hire issue.  "This is not an exemption that would            
 by any means not allow people to fly in fly out."  He indicated               
 that out of the 243 Fort Knox employees 220 employees were hired              
 from within Alaska, 17 were transfers from Cypress-Amax and 6                 
 employees were hired outside Alaska.                                          
                                                                               
 MR. LANG stated the amendment on the restriction to surface mining            
 was a result of the Commissioner of Labor's concern that HB 68 was            
 too broad.  Committee Substitute HB 68 addresses the commissioner's           
 concerns and still accomplishes what the Fort Knox employees want.            
 He further stated, "This is identical in many formats to the                  
 current 10-hour exemption.  We at Fort Knox do have one portion of            
 the operation where people do work under the flex-time with the 10-           
 hour -- Fort Knox working flex-time on the 10-hour has presented no           
 problem that we are aware of to those operations."                            
                                                                               
 MR. LANG addressed the issue of coercion and stated that the                  
 Commissioner of Labor was invited to Fort Knox to talk with                   
 employees to see if that has occurred.  The commissioner would have           
 the oversight of approving any flexible work schedule.                        
                                                                               
 MR. LANG said, "As I see it in summary, first off this legislation            
 would be a significant personal benefit to the employees at the               
 Fort Knox mine and their families, be a boost to preserving the               
 economic viability of the mine, be a neutral to positive impact on            
 the safety, in no way affect the employment level of the mine, have           
 no adverse impact on what I believe is an excellent local hire                
 record, allow a 24-hour operation the same flexibility and work               
 hours currently available on 10-hour schedules, only be applied at            
 operation with the consent of the employees, and maintain the                 
 commissioner of Labor's oversight on it.  Therefore, I would ask              
 that you support the committee substitute that has been introduced            
 before you."                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1446                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the flexible work plan would cost the              
 mine money or would result in a three-quarter of a million dollar             
 savings to the mine.                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied by going to the 12-hour schedule and by paying the           
 extra overtime, it would cost the mine additional money.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1471                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned that if CSHB 68 were to pass, it would           
 save the mine money.                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied the payroll would increase on the 12-hour                    
 schedule.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1485                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT indicated that under the proposed flex-             
 time schedules, 160 hours of straight time will drop to 152 hours,            
 8 hours of overtime will increase to 16.  This will cause a slight            
 increase in cost to the mine, but they hope to make the cost up               
 because instead of having three shift changes where the amount                
 going through the mill might slow down while employees are shifting           
 from one shift to another, there would only be two.  So they hope             
 to make up the difference.                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked what would happen to the employees who            
 do not want to sign the flex-time petition and if they would be               
 required to have the 12-hour shift.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. LANG said he would propose to not put them on the 12-hour shift           
 as there are areas of the operation that would not go to 12-hour              
 shifts.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that nobody would be fired or forced             
 to work the if they don't agree to sign off on the 12-hour shift.             
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied, "That is correct."                                          
 Number 1575                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated confusion.  He questioned what the             
 impact would be if they were to work the proposed schedule, under             
 the current statute, with 10 hours a day possible.                            
                                                                               
 MR. LANG said they looked at the cost of going to a 12-hour shift,            
 based on the current statute of paying overtime above eight hours             
 a day, the flexible work plan specifies a 10-hour shift and they              
 would be running a 12-hour shift.  He said if they are paying                 
 overtime after eight hours they would be paying an hour of overtime           
 for every two hours worked straight time.  That cost to the company           
 would be about a $1.5 million a year.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE replied, currently statute allows 10 hours               
 under flex-time with the application to the commissioner, with the            
 two hours paid overtime on the 12-hour shift.  He said that is what           
 he was talking about under Section 14 of the statute.  He asked               
 what kind of savings would they realize then.  He also asked Mr.              
 Lang if they have thought about applying the current statute at 10            
 hours.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1708                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANG responded it would be more costly to go to the 12-hour               
 shift and try to apply the 10-hour exemption.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1729                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA asked if the 12-hour shifts were to take           
 effect, could any employee wanting to stay on the 8-hour shift do             
 so for as long as they wanted to.                                             
                                                                               
 MR. LANG answered that to be correct.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1755                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Lang had received an approved                  
 flexible schedule from the commissioner for the 10-hour plan.                 
                                                                               
 MR. LANG answered that he would have to defer the question to the             
 superintendent of Human Resources at the mine.                                
                                                                               
 ChAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the mine was paying overtime to the                
 employees on the 10-hour shifts.                                              
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied he did not know, but noted they are working the              
 10-hours and are being paid for over 40 hours a week.                         
                                                                               
 Number 1791                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if the two employees who did not sign            
 the petition were not in agreement with the 12-hour shift.                    
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied that all employees might be in agreement but they            
 just have not gotten to sign the petition.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated he had received several letters              
 regarding the flexible work hours from employees, including some              
 letters from the children of employees, stating that they do not              
 see their mothers/fathers enough.  He asked if the employees would            
 have the option to organize.                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. LANG responded that the decision to organize is strictly a                
 decision the employees make.                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY further asked if Mr. Lang anticipated an               
 increased number of employees and if Mr. Lang could explain the               
 difference between Fort Knox Mine and the Usibelli Mine.                      
                                                                               
 MR. LANG responded he expected the number of employees employed to            
 stay about the same.  The Usibelli Mine is organized and runs some            
 12-hour shifts as well as some shorter shifts.                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted that it is not Fort Knox's intent to             
 impact any other operation.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANG replied, "That is correct."                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1977                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN asked Mr. Lang if anyone has spoken to him            
 about making CSHB 68 more site specific to not impact the laws for            
 the entire state of Alaska.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LANG stated he met with Commissioner Cashen and other labor               
 leaders and would be open to other options that would be more                 
 acceptable to the labor leaders and still meet the employee needs.            
                                                                               
 Number 2012                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM CASHEN, Commissioner, Department of Labor (DOL), stated he is             
 a mining supporter and helped form the Alliance for Juneau's                  
 Future, a pro-mining group.  He read a memorandum he wrote to                 
 Governor Tony Knowles urging the Governor to sign HB 197, which was           
 introduced in the Nineteenth Alaska Legislature:                              
                                                                               
 "I've been a wholehearted supporter of your position of HB 207                
 which has put the oil industry in the world on notice that we are             
 indeed open for business and are willing to do everything possible            
 to encourage exploration and development of our oil and gas                   
 resources in Alaska.  For the same reason I urge you to sign into             
 law HB 197, we need also to send the same message on behalf of the            
 mining industry.  Mining does not produce the same revenue to the             
 state as oil, but is much more labor intensive and creates jobs               
 that are among the highest paying in the nation, see attached                 
 Department of Labor wage information.  Please let me know if the              
 Department of Labor can be of any assistance in providing you with            
 any information that would useful in helping you reach a decision             
 on HB 197."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2116                                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN indicated that the Governor did sign HB 197,              
 Mineral Exploration Incentive Tax Credits.  He stated he is a                 
 mining supporter because it is the top paid industry in the state,            
 in 1994 the average weekly earnings were $1,205, average hourly               
 earnings were $24.30.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2139                                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN stated he is here to testify against CSHB 68 as           
 he believes CSHB 68 does not comply with AS 23.05.10.  He said,               
 "The mission of the DOL is to foster and promote the welfare of the           
 wage earners of the state, improve their working conditions and               
 advance their opportunities for profit of employment."  He said he            
 feels Fort Knox is proposing special interest legislation, as they            
 are not willing to pay overtime paid by the rest of the industry.             
 He felt that it was unfortunate that the price of gold was not                
 higher, and that Fort Knox had a cost overrun on the project, but             
 it was not the fault of Alaskan Labor.  Commissioner Cashen stated,           
 "In my opinion CSHB 68 is not good public policy and a bad                    
 precedent to set."  He said every time a company had financial                
 problems, it would go to the legislature to request a change in the           
 state's labor laws.  He referred to the oil industry in the 1980s             
 when the price of oil was low and indicated the industry had never            
 tried to dismantle the state's labor laws.  When the oil industry             
 worked their employees on 12-hour shifts, they paid four hours in             
 overtime.                                                                     
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN felt that the employee choice of flexible hours           
 was a result of their "killer schedule."  He indicated he had                 
 received the sincere letters of support from the Fort Knox                    
 employees and he feels the company has convinced the employees that           
 it is the DOL's or the legislature's fault that they are working              
 this horrible work schedule.  Commissioner Cashen indicated that a            
 company can assign any work schedule they want to and asked the               
 committee to keep this in mind upon hearing the testimony from the            
 Fort Knox employees.  He also stated another reason he is not in              
 favor of extending the 10-hour exemption to 12 hours is because of            
 abuse to the exemptions as voluntary plan can become a condition of           
 employment with some employers.  He felt that although Fort Knox              
 would not fire any existing employees that do not support the 12-             
 hour shift schedule, they will not hire people who are not willing            
 to submit to the 12-hour shift.  He stated that Alaska is pro-                
 industry and would like industry to come to Alaska but not at any             
 cost.  For instance the state of South Carolina would do anything             
 to lure an industry from another state.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2476                                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN stated he would like to see CSHB 68 die in                
 committee, keeping the state of Alaska's labor laws intact for                
 future generations.                                                           
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-3, SIDE B                                                             
 Number 015                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated there are over 60 people who would like           
 to testify via teleconference on CSHB 68.  He  referred to a flex-            
 plan contract the DOL would have to approve between an employee and           
 an employer and asked of there would be a prohibition of any                  
 outside employment by that employee.                                          
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN responded that he didn't know, but would look             
 into it.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Commissioner Cashen to look at the proposed           
 work schedule plans and run some numbers to see what the various              
 differentials are and perhaps see if we could coordinate that to              
 verify with Mr. Lang in making sure they are appropriate numbers.             
 He said he'd like to see the different scenarios.  He thought that            
 the DOL would be able to give the committee some suggestions on               
 shift organizations.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 076                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA stated the House Labor and Commerce Committee           
 was the only committee of referral for CSHB 68.  He said he wanted            
 to make sure the committee was not being rushed on legislation.               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG agreed and stated "We want to do a thorough job             
 of examining this bill."                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA asked Commissioner Cashen to provide the                
 committee with information on other mine's work schedules in the              
 state of Alaska.  He stated he would be frustrated if he had to               
 participate in the current Fort Knox work schedule, and could see             
 why employees would want a schedule change.  He inquired that if              
 the goal is to change to labor laws why is it only for one mine and           
 not good for everybody.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 150                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Commissioner Cashen if he supported               
 last year's legislation relating to going from eight hours to ten             
 hours.                                                                        
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN stated he supported a version of the                      
 legislation.  Organized labor opposed it entirely and Commissioner            
 Cashen supported the 10-hour concept but wanted the DOL to have an            
 oversight on it.  The reason for his support was because he hoped             
 Greens Creek would hire Southeast Alaska residents as they                    
 proposed.  He stated that this has not occurred, there are 14                 
 residents from Southeast Alaska, other than Juneau, currently                 
 working at Greens Creek.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 197                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if Commissioners Cashen's opposition to           
 CSHB 68 is because of Fort Knox's failure to pay overtime or                  
 because of the added hours.                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN replied that overtime is to discourage working            
 more than eight hours.  In some industries there is no way around             
 working extended hours and Congress wanted to make sure working               
 overtime was imperative by providing a penalty of overtime pay for            
 employers.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked Commissioner Cashen if the employers             
 that abuse the exemption were in the mining industry.                         
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN replied the abuse was in the construction                 
 industry.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked, "What has the state done,                       
 particularly in the DOL, to attract the $580 million investment on            
 this project?"                                                                
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN replied the state has provided the backing of             
 the Alaska Industrial Development Authority to provide financing              
 which would save them several millions of dollars.                            
                                                                               
 Number 299                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if CSHB 68 would cost the state of               
 Alaska anything.                                                              
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN replied, "No, it isn't going to cost the state            
 of Alaska anything.  We are just fearful that it will spill over              
 into other industries and become a statewide problem."                        
                                                                               
 Number 365                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked Commissioner Cashen to let him know, at            
 the next committee meeting on the measure, the number of other                
 surface mines CSHB 68 would be applicable to.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 398                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted that Representative John Davies had been in           
 the room for the past 45 minutes.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 408                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT asked if similar language was proposed in           
 the hours at the face of the mine bill last year as a possible                
 compromise from the administration.                                           
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN  replied no, the overtime was never an issue at           
 Greens Creek, there was a previous law that prohibited employees              
 from working more than eight hours at the face of the mine.  The              
 employees wanted to be able to work ten hours at the face and                 
 overtime was never an issue because Greens Creek Mine was willing             
 to pay the overtime.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 468                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stated that Alaska is different from                
 Commissioner Cashen's South Carolina reference in that CSHB 68 is             
 site specific, for example, if another gold mine wanted the                   
 overtime exemption and the DOL looked at the economics of the                 
 operation, and the price of gold was up to $600 an ounce, the DOL             
 would be able to make the decision that economics did not warrant             
 the exemption and the application could be turned down.  Similarly,           
 if the price of gold were to go up, and the employees of Fort Knox            
 did not feel they were getting their fair share they would have the           
 power to collectively bargain and to unionize.  Representative                
 Therriault stated that CSHB 68 is not wide open as it does not                
 extend outside the surface mining industry and the DOL is there as            
 a safeguard.                                                                  
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER CASHEN replied that the state of Alaska is not down on           
 the state of South Carolina.  He further stated that because of the           
 voluntary nature of the plan, the DOL really would not have much              
 latitude regarding approval and disapproval.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 575                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that he had been told CSHB 68 would              
 cover surface coal mining, surface gold mining and surface gravel             
 exploration.  He said he would like to know exactly what the                  
 implications are under CSHB 68.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated for the record, "Our staff has been                  
 researching it and there is no real differential in the Alaska                
 statute."  He stated that staff would be looking into this issue              
 further.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 616                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said, "Section 6(i) of the statehood compact              
 reserves the subsurface of mineral state to the state of Alaska.              
 So there is an argument that the whole subsurface of Alaska is a              
 mineral state which would be subject to mining."                              
                                                                               
 Number 670                                                                    
                                                                               
 DON ETHERIDGE, Representative, Alaska District Council of Laborers,           
 came before the committee to give his testimony.  He stated "We are           
 coming out opposing this bill also.  We do support the mining                 
 industry.  We love to see it growing.  Our concerns are, as stated            
 earlier, the gravel pits.  Right now, the way everything stands               
 we're told it'll affect our construction right now as the fact that           
 all construction on roads and so forth have a lot of pits, gravel             
 pits, rock pits, whatever they need and we can already see that               
 starting to affect them."  He further stated he felt that the Fort            
 Knox employees are being coerced by their current work schedule.              
                                                                               
 MR. ETHERIDGE felt that there are a lot of employers who would                
 abuse this system in the construction industry.  He stated that the           
 fishing, logging and construction industries depend on overtime to            
 get them through the winter.  He felt this would result in more               
 people on welfare.  He stated the Usibelli Mine would renegotiate             
 its contract upon the passage of CSHB 68 to not have to pay                   
 overtime.  He said he does not think Alaska should change a statute           
 that would affect 241 people.  He said, "We made some suggestions             
 earlier to Mr. Lang about cutting their wages.  Well, they've got             
 a lot of reason why they don't want to do that.  I think that could           
 be a very distinct possibility to where they can work them the 12             
 hours, pay them the overtime."                                                
                                                                               
 Number 828                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Etheridge who represents the Usibelli             
 Mine.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. ETHERIDGE indicated it is the Teamsters.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 842                                                                    
                                                                               
 MANO FREY, Member, Alaska AFL-CIO, testified via teleconference               
 from Anchorage.  He said he wanted to make it clear that CSHB 68              
 was not a union issue versus a nonunion issue.  The AFL-CIO has an            
 interest in every worker in this state whether they are a union               
 worker or a nonunion worker.  He stated that the issue is, "Is it             
 right to change the law to affect 243 people?"  He proposed the               
 solution to lower the employees wages by 80 cents an hour, making             
 it revenue neutral, this way the law would not have to be changed             
 and overtime would be earned.                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA indicated he would do the math on Mr. Frey's            
 wage cut proposal.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1119                                                                   
                                                                               
 RAYMOND SMITH, President, Western Alaska Building Construction                
 Trades Council, testified via teleconference from Anchorage,                  
 against CSHB 68.  He felt the law should not be changed for one               
 group of people.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1247                                                                   
                                                                               
 TIM SHARP, Laborers Union Local 942, testified via teleconference             
 from Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  He noted he does support                    
 employees being able to chose a work shift that suits them.  He               
 stated it is not the employees' fault the mine went into overruns             
 and was concerned with what would happen if the Fort Knox employees           
 did not like the 12-hour work shift.                                          
                                                                               
 RICK BOYLES, Teamster Union Local 959, testified via teleconference           
 from Fairbanks, to waive his time to Mr. Mike Desnoyers of Usibelli           
 Coal Mines, who is making twice the wage rate of Fort Knox for                
 similar hours worked.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that next the committee would hear                   
 testimony via teleconference from Anchorage.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1509                                                                   
                                                                               
 ED KAREEN, Representative, International Union of Operating                   
 Engineers Local 302, testified via teleconference from Anchorage,             
 against CSHB 68.  He stated CSHB 68 exploits workers, is unsafe and           
 will affect all labor industries.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1611                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM ARMSTRONG, Construction Worker, International Union of                    
 Operating Engineers Local 302, testified via teleconference from              
 Anchorage, against CSHB 68.  He indicated it would affect his                 
 overtime.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1694                                                                   
                                                                               
 MIKE DESNOYERS, Electrician, Usibelli Coal Mine, testified via                
 teleconference from Fairbanks.  He said he is against the passage             
 of CSHB 68 and he agrees with Commissioner Cashen.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1703                                                                   
                                                                               
 TOM EVANS, Teamsters Union Local 959; and President Central Labor             
 Council of Anchorage, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.            
 He stated he is representing 30 members who "adamantly oppose CSHB
 68."  He stated it is an anti-Alaska work bill and it will                    
 facilitate out-of-state workers to obtain labor jobs.                         
                                                                               
 Number 1855                                                                   
                                                                               
 LARRY GALLAGHER, Business Manager, Plumbers and Steamfitters Union            
 Local 367, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, said they             
 are in strong opposition to CSHB 68.  He said believed CSHB 68                
 would result in less family time with the 12-hour shifts.                     
                                                                               
 Number 1950                                                                   
                                                                               
 LOREN CHASE, Shovel Operator, Fort Knox Mine, came before the                 
 committee to address the legislation.  He stated that the employees           
 presented the 12-hour work schedule to Mr. Lang.  He also noted he            
 would also like to spend time with his family.                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what Mr. Chase's salary is and how long he            
 has been working at the mine.                                                 
                                                                               
 LOREN CHASE responded he makes $21.50 an hour and has been working            
 at Fort Knox for over a year.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2090                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT asked that Mr. Loren talk about how the             
 employees were presented with the petition and what the response              
 was from his work shift.                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. LOREN stated that the shifts are absolutely horrible and all              
 employees want a change from this shift.  He again stated the                 
 employees went to Mr. Lang to push the change in shift schedules.             
                                                                               
 Number 2179                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA felt he did not know how the Fort Knox                  
 employees were able to cope with only two days off between the                
 change from night to day shifts.  He suggested that it was very               
 unhealthy.  He asked if the employees had looked at other options             
 other than changing the law.  He felt the Fort Knox employees goal            
 was to earn the same salary but with a shift schedule that is "much           
 more user-friendly."  He asked if the Fort Knox employees thought             
 about the suggestion of an 80 cent wage cut with overtime.                    
                                                                               
 MR. LOREN responded that an 80 cent wage decrease would cut into              
 his benefits and would be a loss to the employees when overtime was           
 not being worked.                                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA responded maybe there were ways to address              
 the schedule change without changing the law.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. LOREN responded that employer cannot push CSHB 68 on the                  
 employees, since it has to be obtained only through petition.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA suggested that an unfair work schedule was              
 pushed on the Fort Knox employees by the employer.                            
                                                                               
 MR. LOREN replied that employees applied for the job knowing what             
 the schedule was.                                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA indicated that he would like to talk to the             
 Fort Knox employees some more to find a solution for them.                    
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-4, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 052                                                                    
                                                                               
 GENE ANDERSON, Maintenance Mechanic, Fort Knox Mine, stated he                
 currently works the day shift but started out on the rotating                 
 schedule.  He sees every operator at Fort Knox and stated the                 
 petition is coming from every employee at Fort Knox.  He stated               
 CSHB 68 is in the best interest of the employees because the 12-              
 hour shifts would give employees an extra 90 days off.                        
                                                                               
 Number 200                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Anderson how much he earns.  He asked             
 if the committee did not adopt CSHB 68, would he quit.                        
 Representative Rokeberg also asked if he had good employers.                  
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that he makes $19.55 an hour and that he would           
 not quit.  He stated that it was the best job he has ever had and             
 that Fort Knox is an excellent employer.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 248                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT asked Mr. Anderson to talk about the                
 commute.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON explained that it is about 25 miles or longer, and               
 employees are commuting four to seven days a week.  He stated that            
 not only does the commute add time, but costs money in fuel and car           
 maintenance.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 409                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA stated that he would take some time to find             
 other options, and he asked if he had thought about a revenue                 
 neutral salary.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON believed that CSHB 68 was the best option.  He stated            
 he worked a lot of overtime and would not want a drop in salary.              
                                                                               
 Number 534                                                                    
                                                                               
 WES GRAF, Construction Worker 942, testified via teleconference               
 from Fairbanks, stated that he worked on construction of the Fort             
 Knox Mine and he supports the mining industry.  He thinks the                 
 company initiated the present work schedule as leverage for not               
 paying overtime therefore he opposes CSHB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 590                                                                    
                                                                               
 BILL WILLIAMS, Construction Worker, testified via teleconference              
 from Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  He noted he has been an Alaskan             
 resident for 30 years.  He said he believes that changing the law             
 to benefit 240 people and hurt 60,000 to 80,000 people was not                
 right nor good for the state of Alaska.  He felt this would take              
 work out of Alaska.                                                           
                                                                               
 SYLVIA SULLIVAN, President, Alaskans for a Just Society, testified            
 via teleconference from Valdez, against CSHB 68.  She said she                
 works in the tourist industry and stated the industry needs the               
 protection of the labor laws.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 749                                                                    
                                                                               
 LARRY SPORTSMAN, testified via teleconference from Valdez, stating            
 he would not be affected by CSHB 68 but he is opposed to it.                  
                                                                               
 Number 800                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAN CLASPILL, Electrician and Chief Steward, Usibelli Coal Mine,              
 testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He stated that all              
 surface mines would be effected and all employees at Usibelli would           
 be against giving up any overtime.  He stated that he had worked              
 the same rotating shift in Wyoming and had to leave his job because           
 of it.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 957                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT asked Mr. Claspill if the employees at              
 Usibelli Coal Mine have looked at the wording of CSHB 68 where it             
 states that the shift change has to be voluntary.  He stated he               
 understands the concerns the employees at Usibelli Coal Mine have,            
 but he did not feel the unionized work force would voluntarily                
 sign a change to be imposed against the employees will.                       
                                                                               
 MR. CLASPILL replied that there are ways that employers have means            
 to intimidate and encourage employees to do what they want.  He               
 felt that the Fort Knox employees should calculate the amount of              
 money they would be losing without the overtime.                              
                                                                               
 Number 1033                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stated that the current law already has             
 an exemption for those employees that are unionized.  Unionized               
 employees are under their collective bargaining agreement.  He also           
 indicated that CSHB 68 exempts any mining operation that employs              
 fewer than 12 people.  He further stated that Usibelli Coal Mine is           
 currently exempt from the statutory protection.                               
                                                                               
 MR. CLASPILL responded that it might not always remain that way               
 because there are forces that work to get the union out.  He felt             
 CSHB 68 is seeking greater profit for the employers at the                    
 employees expense.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1113                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what Mr. Claspill salary is.                          
                                                                               
 MR. CLASPILL replied he makes $30 an hour.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1156                                                                   
                                                                               
 MIKE FAIR, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He said he           
 feels CSHB 68 is an anti-family bill.  He had a similar 12-hour               
 shift at Greens Creek Mine and the time of adjustment between                 
 shifts took up most of the time off.  He stated that CSHB 68 will             
 result in coercion of employees, reduce real wages, increase safety           
 hazards, (indisc.) family and social destructions, in addition to             
 the continuing decline of the American standard of living.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1339                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAY QUAKENBUSH, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, on the           
 behalf of 5,000 Alaskan workers.  He stated their emphatic                    
 opposition to CSHB 68.  He agreed that there is a problem with the            
 Fort Knox's current work schedule but they should accommodate a               
 shift change within the confines of current Alaskan Law.  He                  
 believes nothing would stop Fort Knox from adopting the 12-hour               
 schedule, including paying overtime.  He felt CSHB 68 would erode             
 the labor protections that have been built into law.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1433                                                                   
                                                                               
 MARK ROSSAR, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He                 
 stated he was against the passage of CSHB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1463                                                                   
                                                                               
 MILT BEHR, District Representative, International Union of                    
 Operating Engineers Local 302, testified via teleconference from              
 Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  He felt that the 12-hour day needs to            
 be tried to see if it works, and inquired what would happen if the            
 employees wanted to go back to the 8-hour shift.  He stated that              
 there were other solutions.  Mr. Behr was concerned with why Fort             
 Knox could not afford overtime and thought their figures needed to            
 be checked.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1630                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHRIS MORLEY, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, against            
 CSHB 68.  He felt that overtime pay is a penalty that employers               
 paid because of keeping their employees away from their families.             
                                                                               
 Number 1679                                                                   
                                                                               
 MARTIN CARVOLO, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks,                  
 against CSHB 68.  He stated that the impact of CSHB 68 across the             
 state of Alaska needs to be examined.  He said that other                     
 industries will want to get into this "good deal" of an overtime              
 exemption.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1753                                                                   
                                                                               
 CLYDE LORENZ, Construction Worker, Laborers Union Local 942,                  
 testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, adamantly opposing               
 CSHB 68.  He said he feels CSHB 68 would eliminate safety in the              
 workplace and he did not feel the employees of Fort Knox realized             
 the object of the employer.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1820                                                                   
                                                                               
 DEAN NEUMEYER, Maintenance, Fairbanks Gold Mining Incorporated,               
 came before the committee to testify.  He said he is in favor of              
 CSHB 68.  He stated, "When we came down here today we didn't know             
 all there is to know, we are beginning to find out that there are             
 some other avenues and I am sure that we are going to pursue them."           
 He felt that Mr. Lang would work with the mine employees.                     
                                                                               
 Number 1868                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that he wanted Mr. Neumeyer to tell all              
 the Fort Knox employees the petition is going to be looked at by              
 the members of the Labor and Commerce Committee and that it will              
 become an official part of the record of CSHB 68.                             
                                                                               
 Number 1890                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated he wanted to clarify that management            
 was the one responsible for coming forward with the idea for CSHB
 68.                                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. NEUMEYER answered that it was not management and that everyone            
 in the mill came forward with the idea and that all Mr. Lang is               
 doing is supporting CSHB 68.                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Neumeyer would accept a rollback in            
 wages.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. NEUMEYER responded yes, for himself, if the rollback could be             
 shown on a neutral, no loss basis.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1970                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHRYSTAL KOSIDOWSKI, Teamster, testified via teleconference from              
 Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  She stated that the Fort Knox Mine               
 wants to take money away from employees to give it to a non-Alaskan           
 company.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2003                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT MCGILL, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, against           
 CSHB 68.  He stated a non-Alaskan company should be not given more            
 money at the employees expense.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 2025                                                                   
                                                                               
 DON SWARNER, Carpenters' Business Representative, testified via               
 teleconference from Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  He stated that               
 CSHB 68 is bad public policy and felt CSHB 68 should just refer to            
 a single mine site rather than the entire state of Alaska.                    
                                                                               
 Number 2082                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that the Constitution of the State of                
 Alaska, Article 2, Section 19, "prohibits local or special acts,"             
 therefore, the legislation could not be specialized just to the               
 Fort Knox Mine.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 2103                                                                   
                                                                               
 ZINN DECKER, Electrician, testified via teleconference from                   
 Fairbanks.  He ask Mr. Neumeyer if the Fort Knox employees signed             
 the petition before their raise in January.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2140                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. NEUMEYER replied that it had been signed way before the raise.            
                                                                               
 MR. DECKER stated that he had spoken to an employee who had signed            
 the petition, about the negative aspects of CSHB 68, who as a                 
 result would not sign the petition now.  He further stated that               
 $1.5 million is a small price to pay for a company that expects to            
 make millions off of gold mining.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 2192                                                                   
                                                                               
 RICHARD GAUL, Construction Worker, Laborers Union Local 942,                  
 testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, opposing CSHB 68.  He            
 stated that he did not feel the legislation should be dealing with            
 this issue it is a Fort Knox Mine management issue.                           
                                                                               
 Number 2256                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHARLES DERRICK, Construction Worker, Laborers Union Local 942, via           
 teleconference from Fairbanks, against CSHB 68.  He commented that            
 the Fort Knox employers set a difficult work schedule to coerce               
 employees into accepting CSHB 68.  He further stated that although            
 the Fort Knox employees are not willing to take a wage cut, they              
 are willing to enforce one for the rest of the labor workers in               
 Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2303                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOSH MOORE, Senior Mill Operator, Fort Knox Mine, testified via               
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated              
 that the mine is not going to make any money and that management is           
 participating in CSHB 68 to make the employees happy.  He stated              
 that working the existing schedule is comparable to having jet lag            
 all the time.  He is making $18.25 per hour.  Previously, while               
 working at the Nevada goal field, he worked 12-hour shifts at                 
 $15.50 an hour.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 2370                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Moore if he was paid overtime at his              
 previous jobs while working 12-hour shifts.                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOORE replied that he was after 8-hour days and over 40 hour              
 weeks.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2396                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked if he knew of a way a compromise could be           
 made without making changes in the state's labor law.                         
                                                                               
 Number 2412                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. MOORE replied that he would be interested in seeing the numbers           
 from the wage standards receiving overtime without a net change in            
 the annual salary.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 2431                                                                   
                                                                               
 KARL HANNEMAN, Statewide President, Alaska Miners' Association                
 (AMA), testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, against CSHB
 68.  He added that AMA does want a solution for the Fort Knox                 
 workers.                                                                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-4, SIDE B                                                             
 Number 005                                                                    
                                                                               
 SHAWN LOWERY, Shovel Operator, Fort Knox Mine, testified via                  
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated he           
 has been involved with the mine since September, 1995.  He had                
 worked during the construction phase of Fort Knox Mine on 12-hour             
 shifts earning overtime and felt his physical well being and peace            
 of mind was much better than it is now under the current shift                
 schedule.  A two-shift rotation would eliminate a third person on             
 the equipment.  He stated that he would be happy with the wage he             
 would be making on the 12-hour shift without overtime.  He                    
 indicated he wanted his letter to be read by the committee.                   
                                                                               
 Number 123                                                                    
                                                                               
 KERMITT MELVIN, Surveyor, Fort Knox Mine, testified via                       
 teleconference in Fairbanks, in support CSHB 68.  He feels this has           
 become an union versus nonunion issue and stated that union workers           
 would be exempt from CSHB 68.  He felt that he is making good money           
 and that is not the issue, the issue is a different schedule with             
 more time off.  He agreed that seasonal workers would need the                
 overtime but Fort Knox is a year round mine.  He stated that                  
 without CSHB 68 passing the employees would not quit working at the           
 mine.  Mr. Melvin stated that the employees did not want to                   
 unionize and that the 12-hour shift was the employees idea.                   
                                                                               
 Number 227                                                                    
                                                                               
 HARRY MCNEAL, Teamsters Local 939, testified via teleconference               
 from Fairbanks.  He said he is against CSHB 68 primarily due to the           
 effect it will have on other industries and on new hires.  He felt            
 there are other rotating shift schedules that could be implemented.           
                                                                               
 Number 318                                                                    
                                                                               
 ROGER LUCAS, Safety Supervisor, Fort Knox Mine, testified via                 
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated              
 that moral is very important in regards to safety and 12-hour                 
 shifts would increase employee moral.  He stated working three to             
 four 12-hour shifts are less tiring then working seven days on an             
 8-hour shift.  He stated that the mine is currently working 400,000           
 hours without a loss time accident.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 478                                                                    
                                                                               
 TOMMY GARNER, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, opposing           
 CSHB 68.  He stated that he has worked 12-hour shifts in an                   
 assemble line and felt that it jeopardizes safety.                            
                                                                               
 Number 538                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAN SIMIEN, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, opposing             
 CSHB 68.  He sympathizes with the Fort Knox employees.  He stated             
 the employees and the employers need to come together to work out             
 a different solution that would not affect other industries and               
 change the current work schedule.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 660                                                                    
 ALLEN SMITH, Mine Shift Supervisor, Fairbanks Gold, testified via             
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated he           
 has been mining for ten years, and has worked all shifts and the              
 12-hour rotating schedule that gives employees 14 days off every 28           
 days is the best schedule to work.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 710                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Smith received overtime on the 12-             
 hour shift.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 721                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. SMITH responded that he did not.  He worked the same schedule             
 in Colorado that Amax would like to implement.                                
                                                                               
 Number 730                                                                    
                                                                               
 RANDY WETSON, Grader Operator, Fairbanks Gold, testified via                  
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated              
 employees were not forced to sign CSHB 68.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 748                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAVID GUTTENBERG, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, in             
 opposition to CSHB 68.  He stated it was not a union/nonunion issue           
 and felt there could be other options, such as a revenue neutral              
 wage cut, unionizing or to pay employees overtime.                            
                                                                               
 Number 806                                                                    
                                                                               
 JERRY MARSHALL, Senior Mill Operator, Fort Knox Mine, testified via           
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated he           
 has worked all different shifts and the 12-hour shift is the one              
 that worked best for him.  He stated the first time the 12-hour               
 shift change was brought up was at a meeting with Mr. Lang.  Mr.              
 Lang asked if the employees had something that they wanted to                 
 discuss.  A employee asked when they could begin to work 12-hour              
 shifts.  Mr. Marshall added that he felt he missed out on his kid's           
 life because of ten years working 8-hour shifts.  He stated that no           
 one at Fort Knox ever approached any of the employees to rally in             
 favor of CSHB 68.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 958                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he received overtime while working the             
 12-hour shifts.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 967                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MARSHALL indicated he doesn't always receive overtime.                    
                                                                               
 Number 1003                                                                   
                                                                               
 KEITH UPTON, Construction Worker; and Member, International                   
 Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, testified via teleconference               
 from Fairbanks.  He stated he lived in Alaska since 1958, and that            
 most people in Fairbanks are against this bill.  He felt that the             
 legislature is not a bargaining agent for special interest groups.            
 This law will affect thousands of people not just the 241 employees           
 of the Fort Knox Mine.  "The laws are made for the majority of                
 Alaskan residents to better their standard of living."  He further            
 stated Fort Knox is in need of a bargaining agent to solve some of            
 their problems, but the Alaskan legislature is not that bargaining            
 agent.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1138                                                                   
                                                                               
 KEVIN BROWN, Chief Mine Engineer, Fairbanks Gold, testified via               
 teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of CSHB 68.  He stated              
 that the Fort Knox employees understand what they are accepting               
 with the 12-hour work schedule.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1233                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that he will hold further open public                
 testimony on CSHB 68 during the next meeting, or to hear any                  
 progress on further solutions.  He wants to make sure the committee           
 has full public input.                                                        
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1311                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Committee            
 at 6:02 p.m.                                                                  
                                                                               

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